Messages from spirit world

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David and King Saul, by Rembrandt

The king of Israel, Saul, had left God, and not being able anymore to receive God's direct guidance, neither directly nor through prophets of God, he turned for information to mediums. 1 Samuel 27-3/19 (Revised Std Ver):

"Now Samuel had died, and all Israel had mourned for him and buried him in Ramah, his own city. And Saul had put the mediums and the wizards out of the land. ⁴ The Philistines assembled, and came and encamped at Shunem; and Saul gathered all Israel, and they encamped at Gilbo'a. ⁵ When Saul saw the army of the Philistines, he was afraid, and his heart trembled greatly. ⁶ And when Saul inquired of the LORD, the LORD did not answer him, either by dreams, or by Urim, or by prophets. ⁷ Then Saul said to his servants, "Seek out for me a woman who is a medium, that I may go to her and inquire of her." And his servants said to him, "Behold, there is a medium at Endor." ⁸ So Saul disguised himself and put on other garments, and went, he and two men with him; and they came to the woman by night. And he said, "Divine for me by a spirit, and bring up for me whomever I shall name to you." ⁹ The woman said to him, "Surely you know what Saul has done, how he has cut off the mediums and the wizards from the land. Why then are you laying a snare for my life to bring about my death?" ¹⁰ But Saul swore to her by the LORD, "As the LORD lives, no punishment shall come upon you for this thing." ¹¹ Then the woman said, "Whom shall I bring up for you?" He said, "Bring up Samuel for me." ¹² When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out with a loud voice; and the woman said to Saul, "Why have you deceived me? You are Saul." ¹³ The king said to her, "Have no fear; what do you see?" And the woman said to Saul, "I see a god coming up out of the earth." ¹⁴ He said to her, "What is his appearance?" And she said, "An old man is coming up; and he is wrapped in a robe." And Saul knew that it was Samuel, and he bowed with his face to the ground, and did obeisance. ¹⁵ Then Samuel said to Saul, "Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?" Saul answered, "I am in great distress; for the Philistines are warring against me, and God has turned away from me and answers me no more, either by prophets or by dreams; therefore I have summoned you to tell me what I shall do." ¹⁶ And Samuel said, "Why then do you ask me, since the LORD has turned from you and become your enemy? ¹⁷ The LORD has done to you as he spoke by me; for the LORD has torn the kingdom out of your hand, and given it to your neighbor, David. ¹⁸ Because you did not obey the voice of the LORD, and did not carry out his fierce wrath against Am'alek, therefore the LORD has done this thing to you this day. ¹⁹ Moreover the LORD will give Israel also with you into the hand of the Philistines; and tomorrow you and your sons shall be with me; the LORD will give the army of Israel also into the hand of the Philistines." "

I had to think of this biblical story when i came across a hugely weird site called 'Messages from spirit world.' On this site which apparently was set up by Derk van Dorsten (see this article), we find a long list of so-called revelations from the spiritual world all testifying of the greatness of Rev. Sun Myung Moon. While reading through all these purported reports from the spiritual world, i am trying to understand what could have been the intention of those in the spiritual world who fabricated these messages and of those who received and reported on them. It seems to me that if anyone wished to do great harm to Rev. Moon, this would be the most brilliant and effective way to do it.

Because, who could ever believe that most of the founders of world religions, together with communist dictators and mass murderers, and the originator of evil, Lucifer himself, and even 'God,' would all unitedly proclaim the greatness of Sun Myung Moon? Apparently all these spiritual beings have now been united under the banner of love of Rev. Moon and this came across by them only having received lectures on Rev. Moon's teaching.

Who could be so foolish to believe that all these people would suddenly 'know' the truth, that their hearts became soft and open, that they all decided to either recognize Sun Myung Moon as the greatest who ever lived, or would have repented for sins that are so terrible that if there were listed the crimes of the evil people included it would read like the worst horror book that has ever been written in human history.

These messages, the content conveyed through them, the emphasis put upon them on the website, these all occur to me as a ploy to bring Sun Myung Moon to fall, to make him look entirely ridiculous in the eyes of any logical thinking person. I don't know if Rev. Moon has recognized all of these messages, but if he would have done, it seems to me that this would have been his final and complete fall away from God.

Reading through the messages, one theme controls all of them. All of these messages could be summarized in one slogan: "Rev. Moon is the greatest, Rev. Moon is the greatest, Rev. Moon is the greatest." Could Sun Myung Moon really have approved these messages? It is entirely staggering and confusing.

I wonder what Jesus, Moses, Buddha and many other great saints of human history would have to say knowing that their names were used to exalt the glory of Sun Myung Moon, that their names were given in one line with those of the worst criminals of history, Lucifer, Mao Tse Tung, Pol Pot, Stalin, to mention just a few.

How could anybody be so foolish to believe that Satan himself and all these other criminals would have gone on their knees in repentance only after having heard some lectures about Rev. Moon and his Divine Principle? As if the act of only listening to explanations of truth or thought-to-be truth have ever been sufficient to bring anybody to repentance!

More information about the messages

• They are said to have been brought from spirit world through the medium Young Soon Kim
  

• In spirit world said to be moderated by Dr. Sang Hun Lee; quote from this Wikipedia article:

  "Sang Hun Lee (September 5, 1914 - March 22, 1999), was the author of several books on "Unification Thought". After his death, the Unification Church asserts that he conducted a number of seminars in the spirit world, from which testimony from deceased United States Presidents endorsing Sun Myung Moon were relayed."

• Dates of the messages: 1999-2001. Apparently there were some older messages dated 1997 which came moderated by or from Sang Hun Lee in spirit world. Not sure how this could be as Sang Hun Lee died only in 1999?
  

The alleged spirits who testified of Moon

• Lucifer
• St. Augustine
• Confucius
• Jesus, Buddha, Mohammed, Socrates
• The 12 disciples of Jesus
• Central figures of the Old-Testament age such as Abraham, Moses, David, Solomon, Elijah and many more
• Representatives of Christianity such as Paul, Marten Luther, John Wesley, Tertullian, the emperor Constantine and many more
• Church representatives denominational - such as Henry VIII, Ignatius Loyola, George Fox and many more
• Disciples of Confucius
• Communist thinkers Marx and Lenin
• Communist politicians - Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Honecker and many more
• Communist disciples - Ceaucescu, Ho Chi-Minh, Pol Pot and other mass murderers
• 120 world-famous communists - including the communists mentioned above
• 12 journalists - representing 120 world journalists
• A cloud of witnesses - including founders of world religions, communist central figures, and last but not least: 'GOD'
• 'God's' message to the UN & testimonies of 36 US presidents
  

Contact to spirit world

• See this video of an interview of Sun Myung Moon by Al Capp in 1972, where Moon states that he has the ability to relate to spirit world since his earliest childhood.
  

See also

• John Gorenfeld - The king of America (website and video) - http://www.gorenfeld.net/book/
  

Rev. Moon live interview with Al Capp in 1972

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David Kim is Rev. Moon's interpreter.
In the audience another one of Sun Myung Moon's eldest followers, Young Whi Kim, is attending.



Watch this video on YouTube



Watch this video on YouTube


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Video: A new tomorrow, the early days of the UK Unification movement

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When i see these images filmed in the early days of the Unification movement in the United Kingdom, i cannot escape to make a comparison between the movement today and in that time. And with all respect, the early time comes out better.

There is a lot of conviction, some might say arrogance, in the narrative that goes with the film. There is spoken of

the most beautiful farmhouse of the UK, not physically but spiritually ..... because here God's Kingdom is built....

There is shown the printing of booklets containing 'God's Word.' Then we see images of a campaign of a group of Unification Church members going out in a doubledecker bus, to do 'God's work.'

Yet it is undeniable that the people shown in the film are happy and energetic. There is shown work on a farm, a tractor plowing the land, Rev. Moon planting a tree. This looks quite different from the large-scale peace conferences with celebrities from around the world.

Also Rev. Moon and his wife look like people you can love, unlike how they appear to me today. There are scenes of joyful singing and Rev. Moon giving a speech translated by Bo Hi Pak, one of Moon's elder disciples. Also Young Whi Kim, one of the first three disciples of Sun Myung Moon is shown for a short moment. Moon's voice in that time still sounded attractive.

At the end of the video you see members taking off in a chartered airplane to America, to restore that nation.

That's my impression of the videos, now see for yourself.








Here are the links to the videos on YouTube:

• Video 1

• Video 2

• Video 3

And here is the text as posted with the videos on YouTube:

This film, provides a great insight into the early years of the Unification Movement in the UK with footage of Reverend Moon making a holy ground in the village of Stanton FItzwarren. You can catch the enthusiasm and the spirit of dedication that the pioneers of the British movement had, and how creative they were in carrying out what they saw as their mission.

As always it also provides a helpful perspective on the present day when we are able to look back more than 30 years ago and see how everything was. As people's voices and cars have changed over the last 3 decades, so has the Unification Church.

How we live today is obviously so different, and it is a sign of how fast the world is always changing. All the more reason to always dig deep inside our heart to remember our identity and have a sense of where we come from.

Note: the sound in the latter part of the second video was missing when i watched it.

My thoughts about Sun Myung Moon

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Most people are making two typical mistakes about Sun Myung Moon. The one error is to think that he has always been evil. The other blunder is to believe that he is just entirely good.

When you think that Moon has always been evil, you make the mistake that you don't realize that Moon was once chosen by God for a central mission. When you believe he is good, you don't understand how he has fallen and failed his original task.

In either case, you won't really grasp the work God did with him and you won't catch how he came under evil influence. You're short in understanding of both God's work and of how people who were once chosen can fall under evil temptations.

I have been a member of the Unification Church for a number of years. When i joined the movement it was not because i thought that i would find God there. At the time i knew i had to go a course inside of that movement, but of course i wasn't yet aware of what really was going on. After years in the Unification Church and of studying their principles and Rev. Moon's teaching it came to a point that members chased me out. I was kicked out because i understood too much, i had come to see too much of the evils going on there, i had heard too many testimonies of members who had told me about what they had experienced. These testimonies came from members who had been sexually abused by leaders and who had been forced to do things they didn't really want to do.

Although i was tempted to altogether reject the Unification Church, i did not do that. From the time on that i lived outside of the Unification Church, i felt compelled to go on studying Moon and his movement. There was nothing true of the warnings that members gave that after you left the church you would come into a deep hell. My life was so much better in all respects outside of the Unification Church, except for one thing: ever since i had to leave that church their members have given me hell by persecuting me.

They are ignorant fools for the largest part. Some of them are not ignorant. They are sometimes idiots who want to keep what they have gotten, influence and power over other people. Sometimes they are really evil, in complete awareness of the reality that they don't believe in God, don't pray to God, but nevertheless always speak about God.

To which category does Moon belong? He is a case on its own. One answer that i got from God in my many prayers about Moon was that he is like a stubborn pig. Do you want him to go left, he goes right, do you want him to go right, he goes left. But knowing this, you steer him to the right if you want him to go left, and vice versa. This is how i believe that God had to work with that great master Sun Myung Moon.

He was a chosen one, but a chosen one with many big problems.

Why did God choose him for an important mission? I believe that this has to do with restoration of the past. Always, everything that we experience in life is to restore the mistakes of history. Moon has his particular role to play in the house of God's providence of restoration. I won't go into details here, but if you wish to find out more, contact me.

Rev. Moon has received great gifts from God and many of these are passed on to his children. Yet, in the latter part of his life, Moon has fallen into the habit of misusing his blessings for himself. Although he still speaks about God as he did in the earlier years of his ministry, he doesn't pray anymore to God. He prays to himself now, believing that he stands above God, that God needs him and that he did things that not even God couild accomplish. For example, Moon believes that he were capable of loving Satan more than God did and therefore he would have liberated God. It is based on such kind of nonsense thoughts that he did the most terrible thing any created being could ever do to God Almighthy.... he crowned God to king. Do you realize what this means? Only someone who stands above God could do such a thing. Moon actually tried to degrade God to a puppet of Moon's own making.

Moon always had a desire to be big and great, to have people look up to him. But he also had the wish to serve God. I don't know how deep that latter craving was in him. Maybe he wanted to obey God so he could achieve much in his life. Fact is that at a certain point in his later life, Moon came to stand for a difficult choice. Already he had built up a worldwide foundation and he had suffered much. But many things had gone wrong and he knew that very well. He knew that he would have to start all over again because his entire mission had become a failure, that he had come under the influence of followers who were only out for money and power, who had flattered him and who had come to dominate him. Yet, Moon at that point felt that he had suffered his entire life to reach the success that was now his harvest. He saw that the world would open for him and lie at his feet and he deliberately and consciously made the choice to take that harvest and to not do God's will to start all over again.

After this he wasn't anymore capable to pass on God's revelations. His speeches became empty and external. He told people to obey and respect him and to work for peace in the world and influence in society. He made friends with many evil rulers in the world. Right now his powerful foundation has become worthless in the eyes of any person loving God. He is bribing politicians and other influential figures with his big bags of money.

I don't believe that Rev. Moon can still change before he dies. He may still utter a few words of repentance in his deathbed. Rev. Moon is not important anymore. He is a figure of the past. What still is important is what God has invested in his children, his grandchildren and the most earnest ones of his followers.

That i have set up this blog is to reach out to them.

Video The King of America, by John Gorenfeld

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The following video was made by John Gorenfeld. He wrote the book Bad Moon Rising: How Reverend Moon Created the Washington Times, Seduced the Religious Right, and Built an American Kingdom
The video shows some recent developments concerning Sun Myung Moon, like his crownation to 'King of America' at a US Senate building in 2004 (read) and his sea food companies in America.


Online Videos by Veoh.com


John Gorenfeld's view on Moon in this interview March 3, 2008

See also

• John Gorenfeld: About me and my work
  
• John Gorenfeld: The King of America
  
• John Gorenfeld's profile on Amazon

Video: Moon - Emperor of the Universe (BBC documentary)

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The following video is a one-hour long BBC documentary made in 2000. It gives a lot of information about Sun Myung Moon, starting with his early life. The film is well-made, has nice accompanying images and shows the views of both staunch supporters of Moon and those who are against him. This altogether doesn't help to get much nearer to the truth. The ones shown in support of Mr. Moon are mainly those who are executing Moon's plans of building a world empire. Several of the ones who are against him got frustrated after having followed Moon.
Don't expect a final answer from either one of these witnesses. Final truth needs to come from balanced views of those people who investigated Mr. Moon, his teaching and his movement from a certain distance. This video can help you to collect more information and i hope it will enable you to start a process of finding truth about Rev. Moon.





Watch this video on Google Videos

Pictures of Sun Myung Moon's movement

Use ctlr+ for larger images

Unification Theological Seminare - screenshot


Washington Monument Rally 1976 - screenshot


Moon meets Gorbachev in 1990 - screenshot


Moon meets Kim Il Sung in 1991 - screenshot


Moon family 3 generations 2005-2006 - screenshot


Cheon Jeong Gung Peace Palace - screenshot

Open letter to Sun Myung Moon

This is not the first letter i am writing to you. In the past decades i have sent you some other letters and i have reason to believe that you have read them all. I believe this, not because you answered all of these directly, but because waves of persecution came over me from some of your followers right after you received these letters. And these people told me that they were sent by you to do this.

As the years are passing by, things are changing. You are an old man now and your body will not live long anymore in this physical world. It is therefore more for your children and grandchildren that i am writing this. Yet, it is also still for you. Maybe, before you pass away you can still keep up to the promises you delivered so often in public and in private. I am referring to your pledges that even if all who are following you would fail, you would have the determination to start all over again from scratch. You do need to start all over again, not only because you have so many followers who don't love God or who got confused, but also because you yourself are in need of this.

I have studied your teaching and your life, maybe more than anybody else. If you don't believe me, check the blogs i am publishing here. I did not only study your teaching and life, i prayed very much about this. And i got many answers from God. Before you brush me off as a lunatic or a confused person, remember that i only did what you advised in your earlier speeches, to ask God about everything. I took that seriously, not because it came from you, but because it appeared to me a true and sincere advice.

I don't live in the delusion that you're going to take my letter very serious. Well, i would hope so, but it would be a great miracle. I am writing this letter because i know i need to do this, if not to change affairs in the present, then to effect them for the future.

God once gave into your hands the Dispensation of Home Church. How enthusiast you were in the beginning... and how miserably you forgot about it later! If there is one main mistake you made in your life, it is that you forgot about Home Church. Did you not realize how precious Home Church is to God? Don't you remember the excitement of heavenly spirit world when people were actually doing this?

You thought that Home Church was only for your followers, for Won Pil Kim and for all those people who still had to go their course of restoration. You thought that you already had fulfilled Home Church because you had built up the Unification Church. How wrong you were! Home Church is not a task that once fulfilled can be forgotten or surpassed. If you think so, you have never understood what it really is.

You and your Unficiation Church had come to a new level at the moment that Home Church was given. At that moment, the Unification Church had become obsolete. You, yes, also you, and everyone could have done Home Church from there on and it would have led you into heaven.

Don't you understand that the Unification Church has and had become an extension of Christianity? You think that God wanted Jesus to build a church? Did Jesus start a church during his life? Jesus did Home Church during his life. But you started a church.

You did not have the task to start a church. You got the mission to build up the Holy Spirit Association for the Unification of Worldwide Christianity. Why did that become the 'Unification Church?'

Now you did more or less abolish the Unification Church. Instead you started a peace movement, which is more political than religious, more about getting influence in the world than about teaching people how to improve their individual relationship to God.

I won't spend many words on your Universal Peace Federation. If you think that all the world needs is to bow down for you, then go ahead. Any person with a little common sense will understand that things won't work that way.

In your early life you contemplated whether you should become a politician or a religious person or a philosopher. You chose for religion. But you have abandoned that wise choice of your youth.

Don't be fooled anymore Sun Myung Moon! Don't be fooled anymore, children and followers of Sun Myung Moon! Go back to God and ask God what to do. So much was given to you. So much responsibility you carried.

It's not about who has to follow whom. It's not about who should be the leader. It's for each individual to know how to do what is right, not because you're being told to do so, but because you know in your heart that God wants you to do certain things.

Why was Sun Myung Moon in Hungnam?

A question found on the internet

Moonies say Rev. Moon was in prison camp for preaching. he was in there for ADULTERY. he had sex with mrs. chong, a religious woman who said she had a dream of having sex with god and if moon had sex with her he would be equal to god.

Why do Moonies continually follow him?!?!?

http://www.tparents.org/Library/Unificat...

Pikareun is sick, man.

Did they ever teach this in YOUR Moonie sunday school class?

Answer

There's a big temptation coming from the spiritual realms to many people. These temptations can come through dreams or through inspirations or revelations. Some of these temptations are on the level of sex, others are to make one believe lies, again other temptations are to accept a person as if here were God. One other type of revelation that is deceptive is to make people believe that all their (financial and other) blessings came from God.

It is clear that already at an early stage, Sun Myung Moon was unable to judge these kind of spiritual phenomena. You may also know that also in more recent times he extensively has made use of mediums to spirit world. They have to tell him what is happening in the spiritual world. Apparently, he could not find out himself.

But how could he judge such spiritual phenomena other than from his own relationship to God and from his own experiences? He has been fooled by spirit world since a very long time.

The only way to judge spiritual phenomena and revelations is by your prayer to God. Use your own free mind to find out the truth. God is real and the spiritual reality is real, but we can only have a good relationship to God and to the spiritual by our own continuous sincere effort to connect to God and through our desire to be good.

Sexual immoral practices of Rev. Moon

Here is a question that i found on the internet.

According to this link: http://www.luciferia.tv/sixmarydoc.htm Moon practiced 'pikareun', a practice that was done in several Korean cults that sprung from the Jesus Love Church. It was believed that having sex with the messiah would bring purification. Chung Hwa Pak wrote the Six Mary's exposing Moon, later saying it was all false before he died. Chung Hwa was an early disciple, and acquired interviews with former early members who admitted to knowing about these practices.

For Moonies, a religion I grew up in, how do you think about that? My parents and some friends acknowledged it as true. Sam Pak, son of Bo Hi Pak, is the son of Moon, and Moon had a son by Myung hee Kim who died in Japan. How can the Messiah, a perfect man, commit sexual sin like this? Should we believe it to be holy despite?

I love God so much, and the DP, but this is strangling my faith.

mansei


ADDITIONAL LINKS:
http://www.tparents.org/library/unificat...
http://www.tparents.org/Library/Unificat...

Answer

It seems rather obvious that Mr. Moon has done the things that you are writing about. The question then is whether such acts are always sinful or whether there could be exceptions, as Mr. Moon apparently claims for himself to be the case.

What is a sin? It is an action, thought or feeling or plan, a desire that is not centered on God, that is not willed by God. Although there are many laws and rules that describe what should be considered as sinful, at the same time one should not be dogmatic about this, because eventually it is the motivation that counts and the question whether something was really wanted by God or not. That means that it is difficult to judge the deeds of Mr. Moon at face value. We don't know exactly what happened and why it happened.

Yet, one result of sin is the emotion of shame, which is to hide the sin. You have now heard about this practice of Moon, but some years ago almost nobody knew about this, also not in the church of Moon. If one would ask about it, the facts were denied. So ask yourself the question why this has been hidden for so long, and in many ways still is. Does this not make one suspicious that something was hidden because it was at least thought to have been wrong?

I have my opinion about what happened there far back in Korea, but won't state it openly on the internet. The answer can only be found in your prayers to God. Ask God and believe in the answers you get. Continue to pray about this until you are clear. Continue to pray even for many years, because you should not live on letting such important questions be unanswered.

Note about the first four comments below, by Christopherwitt
I posted his comments, for now. You may want to read them, have fun!
Interestingly, there is some truth in what he says, but it is truth clouded by confusion.
He seems to know what was Mr. Moon's original mission and also that Mr. Moon failed. But that's no big deal, because it is known by many.
There are some details in his comments that i find interesting. I'm still studying what he says, to discover what motivates and who inspires him.

To followers of Mr. Moon who are reading this, i would say: "Even if you don't agree with such a person, do study what he says and try to understand the meaning. Do not just brush him off because he seems a weirdo to you. He represents a certain spiritual reality. By understanding this spiritual reality, we can learn to control it in a good way."